Taking The Supply Chain Pulse
St. Onge’s Healthcare Hall of Famer and industry icon, Fred Crans, chats with leaders from all areas of healthcare to discuss the issues of today's- threats, challenges and emerging trends and technologies in a lighthearted and engaging manner.
ENGINEERING A BETTER HEALTHCARE SYSTEM
We provide comprehensive planning and design services to develop world-class facilities and highly effective support services operations. Our capabilities in hospital supply chain consulting include applied industrial engineering, lean methodologies, systems thinking, and operations research to enable improved patient care and staff satisfaction. We are proud to have worked with over 100 hospitals, including 18 of the top 22 in the US, utilizing diverse design strategies, post-construction implementation, and change management.
Taking The Supply Chain Pulse
Conrad Emmerich: Creating the Next Generation of Healthcare Supply Chain Leaders
Join us as Conrad Emmerich, the Chief Procurement Officer at Advocate Health, as he takes us through his journey from rural Minnesota to leading a $33 billion healthcare supply chain. In this episode, Conrad reflects on his upbringing, the influence of his father’s work ethic, and his academic and early professional experiences.
Learn how Emmerich has had to navigate the intricacies of supply chain management in a geographically diverse healthcare system. We discuss the critical balance between centralized functions and regional flexibility, and how Advocate Health transitions smoothly to systems like Workday ERP. Conrad shares his strategic approach to ensuring effective logistics and service delivery across multiple states, shedding light on the complex yet fascinating world of large-scale healthcare supply chains.
Leadership and talent are at the heart of successful supply chain management, and Emmerich illuminates this with compelling examples from his team. Learn why securing senior leadership support is vital and how credibility, transparency, and diversity contribute to exceptional outcomes. Conrad emphasizes the importance of nurturing talent and continuous development, highlighting remarkable individuals like Marisa Faribault, Dennis Mullins, Bill Brewer, and Allison Titt. Conclude with a heartfelt note on the value of collaboration, leaving you inspired by the potential of a well-managed supply chain.
Finally, learn which quarterback Conrad thinks is the G.O.A.T..
Hey there everybody. This is Fred Kranz from C&I here with another episode of Taking the Supply Chain Pulse. Today we're going to be talking with one of my favorite guys, a guy that I met when he was at Shands at the University of Florida, conrad Emmerich, the Chief Procurement Officer and Advocate. I had to look at my paper here because the IDNs that Conrad worked for have changed names so many times. I had to make sure I got the thing right. Conrad, it's great to have you here. Thanks for talking with us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks, Fred. It's an honor to be asked to participate in this, so look forward to the next 30 minutes with you to be asked to participate in this, so look forward to the next 30 minutes with you.
Speaker 1:Good, good, good. So, conrad, tell us about yourself, tell us your background, how you ended up, how you ended up where you are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I. So I it's a little bit of a long story, but I'll share some of the highlights along the path. And I, you know, I grew up in rural Minnesota, for it, I think you know that about me and I will attribute my childhood to a lot of hard work and learning and understanding the value of hard work and growing up in a small town of less than 2,000 people and my dad was probably the one who instilled that in me the most and I think it took. I look at that as a lot of my success. It points to a lot of my success in my career, what my dad taught me, and so you know I was able to take that and I moved on to Northwestern University. That's where I went, I did my undergrad and I kind of fell into health care just by chance.
Speaker 2:And I, you know, as you know, I'm a former athlete and at Northwestern our training facility shared a parking lot with Evanston Northwestern Health Care, which is now, I think, north Shore or Lakeshore, I don't know the exact name of it. So it shared a parking lot and funds were running pretty low and I'm thinking about my dad telling me to go out and get a job and try to earn yourself a little bit of money. So I walked across the parking lot and into the corporate office at E&H and asked them if they needed some help. And sure enough, they said, yep, we could use some part time help in the summer. And I started out there and that's kind of how I got into health care. I started in the accounts payable department and I started filing the carbon copy of checks and so that's how I kind of that, not kind of that's how I got my way into health care. And I went back there every single summer. And it was my second summer where I started to do a project with the purchasing team. And I pointed I'm like that's what I want to do, like I want to do a project with the purchasing team. And I pointed them like that's what I want to do, like I want to do that side of the business. And so every every summer I just tried to continue to work um, uh, get some projects between the two departments and uh and sure, the rest was kind of uh, the rest was kind of history.
Speaker 2:For for that I, uh, my wife is three years younger than me and we met at Northwestern, so I stayed around and worked for E&H after I graduated and waited for her to graduate. Then we headed to Florida, got married a week after she graduated, headed to Florida and I was again kind of in the right place at the right time and got a job at Advent Health in one of their smaller facilities in the Orlando area. Spent a little bit of time there, then went up to UF Health Shands Healthcare for five years, being their head supply chain. After a couple years, I worked for Randy Hayes there for a couple of years before he moved on and had the opportunity to run that supply chain there Five years later.
Speaker 2:Went to Wake Forest Baptist in 2010. And you know, to your initial comment early, as you know, since then the organization has merged a couple of times, had two couple of different names and been in the right place at the right time, and today I am the head supply chain, or I lead the supply chain, for Advocate Health and, as you know, advocate Health is kind of a combination of multiple organizations. We're $33 billion of top-line revenue and we have a presence in about six states, so 70 hospitals. So we again pretty fortunate to be in the right place at the right time and have the opportunity to continue to lead the supply chain.
Speaker 1:I think it's more than just fortunate and being in the right place at the right time, cause I remember I met you at Shands that's where I met you, yeah, and we went back and forth about several things related to college sports. You were making fun of the U and I asked you why your logo was a Z turned on its side.
Speaker 2:I still remember those. That friend, I do appreciate it. I do appreciate it it.
Speaker 1:I do appreciate it, but the interesting thing is a lot of very few people, I think, have had the experience of working both for academic medical centers and then for private not-for-profit systems. Could you suppose I was a new guy coming into the field and I needed to get some intel on what to look for among the two different, among those two different types of organization? How are they the same? How are they different? Tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 2:It's a good question and I think people go into healthcare, they have a passion for it and there's a reason that people go into healthcare.
Speaker 2:So you know, on one level, it doesn't matter where you are, that everyone is heads down trying to make a difference, trying to improve health in our communities for the patients that are right before them, to the regions that we work in.
Speaker 2:So I think that's pretty consistent throughout and in certain well again, as you know, every organization is a little bit different. So the aspect of the care delivery model and why people are in it, I think it's consistent no matter what organization you walk into. Where I think there are differences, though, however, is some of the operational, the business, I'll say the business operations within an academic versus a non-academic, and there's just other aspects of running departments, academic departments that are considered and also, I think, the aspect of having this continuous learning mindset mindset. You know, academics are known for developing a learning model and having residents and fellows and students a part of their day-to-day operations, and I think that obviously has to be considered and highlighted as one of the differences. But at the end of the day, everyone is focused on improving health and you know that's what I point to as an overwhelming consistency, and I lean towards the consistency side of it rather than the differences between them.
Speaker 1:That's pretty interesting, but you know, yogi Berra once said that baseball is 90% mental and the other half is physical. Yeah, and I would say that supply chain is 90% political interaction and the other half is actually something to do with the supply chain. Is that what you found out in the organizations you worked with it?
Speaker 2:is. I think we have a role within the organization and that organization could be X, y or Z. We have a role from a supply chain standpoint to Fred, to if it is bedside care. You know there's a lot of things that I've seen us contract for and source and ensure that we got to our end users.
Speaker 1:Interesting, interesting. So you know, advocate is a geographically diverse system. We've worked with you folks, working with Dennis Mullins, to deal with some of the issues related to how do you want to handle logistics, for example, in different regions. My question is do you have an overarching plan for the many geographic areas or several smaller regionalized ones? And before you answer, steve Downey from the clinic, cleveland Clinic was one of the folks I talked with and by overarching they have international, you know things to deal with. But he said that they have an overarching philosophy that they remain true to and then they come up with strategies to solve problems and issues in each physical geographic area. Could you talk about how you guys are doing that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we're similar and consistent with that type of mindset. So we must be doing the right thing. If Downey's doing that up at the clinic right, so we must be going in the right direction. So I got a lot of respect for Steve and what he's doing at the clinic. Our approach is similar. There are some core elements of supply chain management that we are going to have a centralized function to, and you know, one of the main items when the organization looks at other potential organizations is how are we going to gain value? And supply chain just is at the top of that list pretty consistently, from value to be identified to the speed by which we can get value to like leading the way and setting an example for integration. Supply chain sits right up there. So there are some core elements of what we do. If it's sourcing, if it's value analysis, if it is technology and analytics, procurement, those are some of our core functions that are going to be centralized and sit over the organization as a whole. Now there are also a lot of variables that lead us to that.
Speaker 2:Our philosophy is integration. That Our philosophy is integration. Systems are one of the key integrators and success points for technology. That's what I mean by systems technology for healthcare systems to come together and be successful, and our philosophy is that we're going to align those as much as possible. So we are on a path to transitioning to Workday for our ERP in the Southeast. So we implemented Oracle in 2001 in the Southeast, which is a legacy atrium, and in the Midwest, which is a legacy advocate, aurora. We implemented Workday in April of 2022. So very recently and after a thorough review of them, we decided we're going to transition to the Workday product and that's going to go live in July of 2025. So, with that philosophy, it allows us and is an enabler for us to centralize our supply chain in some ways.
Speaker 2:Supply chain in some ways Now, because we are geographically dispersed, the consideration for different operating models based on where facilities sit, based on the number of bricks and mortar clinics to off-site clinics, to hospitals, to the number of distribution centers that we have that we're using today, to our resiliency strategy, like that's all needs to be taken into consideration to determine what our operating model looks like and within each of our regions, because we've got we've got a region that has is 100 percent lung and has a warehouse where we do non-acute from and we store other products and more equipment for some of our departments. And then we have another model where we do some self-distribution in part of one of our regions. We have another model that one of our regions goes direct straight from distribution in. So, based on where each of them started is dependent on where we're going to go with them. So we do have flexibility in our model in understanding what is best for that region at that time. Time we revisit this on a pretty consistent basis based on.
Speaker 2:You know there's a lot of implications associated with us and the decision that we're going, but as we continue to grow, we have to ensure that for health systems that come into the organization, that we thoroughly assess where they're at from a starting point and what is best to deliver to that organization from a service standpoint, from a logistics standpoint, from a distribution standpoint, et cetera. What we don't really have leeway on, what we don't sacrifice on, are those immediate key elements where we're going to gain value Sourcing. We're going to go ahead and bring. We're going to. We're going to go ahead and bring everyone a part of the sourcing family immediately. This is what we're going to um, this is what we're going to deliver value analysis. We're in the middle of standing up an enterprise value analysis structure.
Speaker 2:We're going to for for defined, evidence driven, evidence-based decision making. We're going to create that. We're creating that structure so that we have very clear rules from a decision-making standpoint and evaluation and partnership with our clinicians. So there are some elements of what we do that we're not going to give on Like. This is part of it, but there are other elements. We have to assess where we're starting from to see what's the best model and whether or not we want to go one way or the other with it.
Speaker 1:So there is flexibility in other aspect of it a little bit long-winded, fred, but um again, it goes back to where you know what is best for that region and that market, based on where they're starting from yeah, and the thing that you you pointed out, that I've been trying to bring up to people that don't understand systems merging into mega systems, like you've been involved in, is you're getting a lot of old stuff, you're getting a lot of, you're getting disparate ERPs, you're getting all kinds of things that you just you know it's like there used to be, when I was a kid, and that's a long time ago, two types of electric trains Lionel and American Flyer, and Lionel had three rail track and American Flyer had two rail track and they couldn't play together.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you get that times 100 anytime you bring these things together. And what you said and I think is important and I think a lot of people overlook this is that when you're bringing someone new on board, you're doing an assessment of where they are when they come on and how that relates to where you are and the systems you have in place. And then in some cases especially probably in operations, logistics and transportation, distribution perhaps you may have to have a plan for every part, a regional plan to service them, to make that work. Is that fair?
Speaker 2:That's absolutely right. You know developing processes and evaluating them based on their starting points.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and when, I say that go ahead.
Speaker 2:Sorry, I was going to say for the other thing that I'm so excited about the recent merger that formed Advocate Health, because as we go through these assessments we find out a lot of information and there are good aspects of what all these supply chains are doing that we take and we just we level up Like we've got some we've historically we've had some traditional supply chains that were pretty good and by taking, like, the good things from all of them, assessing whether or not we can roll them out from an organization, and we're going to level up to even elevate the supply chain as a whole for the combined institution and I think I tip my cap to the supply chain team because we have just done a phenomenal job of elevating the supply chain to take what's the good things and say we're going to do this everywhere.
Speaker 1:That's interesting. So I was thinking you know, when you take the old sign off and put a new sign on, you have generally old people there and you can be met with folks who don't want to change and stuff. So you've been fortunate to build consensus, is what you're saying.
Speaker 2:I have, and I've also been really fortunate to be in a position with people that are really good, like we've got some really good teammates on our supply chain, we've got a lot of bench that people that are thinkers, that are smart, that just really want to do what's best and elevate our services to the organization and the value we provide, and really been in a fortunate position to be able to capitalize on the talent that we have on our teams.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know, like I say, I've known you since your days at Shands and you've always been a humble guy, never wanted to hog the limelight. We're going to talk about some of the people you've developed later and I think it's a tribute to you that you're able to make people want to do this, you know, want to do what's out there. So how tough is it for you? Because I know every.
Speaker 1:I remember I don't know if I don't think you remember this, but I won't say where you were, but I was in one of your buildings one day and I said, well, you guys must be doing real well. You know, you guys look at this place, it's beautiful surroundings here. This place must be loaded. And you said, fred, don't let the surroundings fool you, we've got a lot of, we got a lot of stuff that we're dealing with. So I I know that every place, no matter how big they are, and you have, you have more resources to get more specialized people than most. But how tough is it to get senior leadership to commit to spending money on supply chain operations when you're, like every other place, fighting with every clinical group and everyone else to try to get scarce resources?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that that has been that's ebb and flowed, right, I think that that has been that's ebb and flowed. And I right, and it depends on the organization you're in, it depends on the time that you're in Just being in health care. Finances have gone up and down, volumes have gone up and down. I think you just getting support is establishing credibility, is establishing credibility. I think it's having a really good plan. I think it's also understanding the timing of the environment and I don't, I don't.
Speaker 2:We have always been very supported by our senior leadership team and I think it's also because our team is delivered.
Speaker 2:When we say we're going to do something, we do it.
Speaker 2:And when we are fortunate enough to be given resources, we go back and say here, here's our check-in six months, here's our 12-month check-in, on a pretty consistent basis to say this is what you, this is what our original business case was, this is what we did with it and this is the outcome of it. And I think being transparent with the funds or resources that were given to us is a way that we establish the credibility. So over the years, you keep doing that and you get senior leadership that says, hey, they're going to be honest with us. You know I got a lot of faith in their ability to deliver on this and or, if things aren't going the right way, they're going to go ahead and transition and make the right decision to go a different path. But so I think that we've been really fortunate to have just a tremendous amount of support by our senior leadership team and we again. We bring forward initiatives and requests when we think they are going to level up, continue to level up the supply chain and the organization.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know, like I say, I think there's a profile among the organizations where supply chain is considered to be a C-level operation, and that is the personality of the leaders. I mean, I think of Steve Downey, I think of you, I think of Ed Hiscock, charlie Michelli.
Speaker 1:These are all folks who and I think this, steve Downey, I think of you, I think of Ed Hiscott, charlie Michelli- these are all folks who and I think this gets missed, I think this gets missed a lot Supply chain becomes a hero when there's a tragedy out there and then after the tragedy or the crisis is over, then it's back to normal. Get the prices down and get rid of people. That's the message that comes out. But for the real stellar organizations, they have stellar people with stellar personalities that find a way to relate and become accepted at the level of the C-suite. And I think you know I think that's very true of you and you know I'm not blowing smoke, I don't do that. I think you know that.
Speaker 2:I understand that, Fred.
Speaker 1:So, talking about that, one of the problems that healthcare is facing is talent a talent shortage, a physical talent shortage and a qualitative and quantitative talent shortage. And for a guy that's as young as you, maybe you're 80 years old and you just look like you're 35, but for a guy as young as you, you've developed some stellar talent. Marisa Faribault is I'm shamelessly one of her fans. I watch the way she works, I watch the poise that she manages a huge system at Advent and how well she does it. Dennis Mullins another guy that I mean. I'm praising people from the University of Florida and I went to Miami, so you know this is good. Bill Brewer I worked with Bill at UHC and Allison Titt. Allison Titt is a future famer for the Bellwether League. You know that's a. That's a lot of people. How do you do it? Tell me how you, how you do, how you develop people like that, because it's you're the best I know at it.
Speaker 2:Well, I appreciate that Fred, and I'll say a little bit is getting lucky, but also there is a lot of it. That's, you know, putting together the right elements that you look for. And again, I draw on my dad for a story and he would always tell us that you surround yourself with people that are going to make you better and you should also surround yourself with people that are not just like you. So when I look and evaluate a team, I look and see you know who brings what to the table and is it unique to the team? Is it check what we need? But also, is a mindset, is the philosophy, is the style unique to everyone else that sits around the table? And I think if you look Marisa Dennis, bill Allison, if you go down that entire list and keep going with my team that I surround myself with today, everyone brings something a little bit unique to the table.
Speaker 2:Now there are multiple elements and variables that are must-haves. Number one they got to be a great communicator, verbally, non-verbally, a presence about them. They got to be a great listener, like that's a that is a must have. And if they're, if they don't, if I, if I don't think that someone is a great communicator, odds are that they're probably not going to fall in line with with what we need as a team.
Speaker 2:And the second one is you got to absolutely be accountable for your actions and you know no matter how good or how bad something ends up. You just got to be transparent and you got to be accountable for your actions. So I look around and I look for people that have those two as a must have, as a must-have, and then I also see, like, what else they're going to bring to the table, because you know, at some level people have competencies, but what's going to differentiate them? So I've been fortunate. Some people have really worked out well and you listed some of them. I just I've been around great, great people and I've been kind of lucky in selecting them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, you've done a great job and you know a couple of things. Every one of those people that I know, they're bright people, they're confident people, they're competent people, and what I would say about you and I think this is true of really good leaders that are competent are not threatened by other competent people. They are enlightened and improved by them, and I see that with the folks that you brought together, I think it's really neat. People need to pay attention to that. The toughest question of the day that I have for you is you're a tight end at Northwestern right.
Speaker 2:Well, I was a tight end at Northwestern right. Well, I was a defensive end at Northwestern. I was a tight end with the Bears.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you're a tight end with the Bears. You were a tight end, right. So a tight end On their best day, on their best physical day. Who would you rather be the tight end for, mahomes or Brady? And I'll throw in a third one, jim McMahon, because you're from Chicago.
Speaker 2:Oh, Jim McMahon. Oh, interesting, and why? Well, I think, Fred, that's kind of a softball in a way, because I got to go with Tom Brady. Tom Brady's a Big Ten guy and I played against Tom Brady when he was at Michigan, so that dates me Not quite when we were wearing leather helmets, but I did play against Tom Brady. And secondly, there's allegations out there that footballs that he threw around were a little bit softer because they had some air out of them. So catching a ball that has a little bit of air out of it is a lot easier than a really hard football that gets thrown, especially in cold weather. So if any of that were true, I would say that Tom Brady's my guy.
Speaker 1:There you go. Okay, I wasn't surprised by that. So finally, the free throw. What do you want to talk about that? I didn't surprised by that. So finally the free throw. What do you want to talk about that? I didn't ask about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think one thing you touched on, fred, was talent in supply chain, and I think we as leaders in supply chain, I think we as that generation that continues to transition, I think it is our obligation to bring new supply chain talent into the organizations that we work and into the industry, and it is really important for us to find and develop people that are going to take our roles someday, and I take that very seriously because the supply chain continues to be elevated.
Speaker 2:You talked about supply chain being focused on and highlighted when there's a crisis, but we need more people to remain at the table when there isn't a crisis, and I think some of the organizations you listed remain at the table and there's a bunch more out there too, right, but I think that is a factor of very talented, very smart, highly thoughtful, highly communicative talent that is coming up in the ranks in supply chain. And you know, if I were to say, you know, focus on for our industry as a whole, for the well-being of it and the continued success of it, is to raise talent and continue to develop people that want to do this for a career I couldn't agree with you more, conrad uh and I I really want to thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to spend time with us.
Speaker 1:Anytime I get to speak with you is one of the best days of my life, buddy.
Speaker 2:Oh, thanks, Fred. I feel the same way too, buddy, Thank you.
Speaker 1:You feel the same way about talking to yourself. It's one of your best days.
Speaker 1:Yeah of course. Okay. Well, conrad, thanks so much for being on the podcast and you know, hopefully we'll have you on again sometime. If you have any topics that you think we should be talking about, or if you have any people at your organization that you think I should be talking to, let me know, because I need folks to have on the podcast and it's so good to have you. So thanks again, take care, and we'll see you later. Take care, conrad.
