Taking The Supply Chain Pulse
St. Onge’s Healthcare Hall of Famer and industry icon, Fred Crans, chats with leaders from all areas of healthcare to discuss the issues of today's- threats, challenges and emerging trends and technologies in a lighthearted and engaging manner.
ENGINEERING A BETTER HEALTHCARE SYSTEM
We provide comprehensive planning and design services to develop world-class facilities and highly effective support services operations. Our capabilities in hospital supply chain consulting include applied industrial engineering, lean methodologies, systems thinking, and operations research to enable improved patient care and staff satisfaction. We are proud to have worked with over 100 hospitals, including 18 of the top 22 in the US, utilizing diverse design strategies, post-construction implementation, and change management.
Taking The Supply Chain Pulse
Healthcare's Next Generation is Learning Supply Chain by Design, Not Accident
Reggie Gardner, a Navy Corpsman turned graduate student, represents the future of healthcare supply chain by combining practical medical experience with formal supply chain education at the University of Tennessee. His journey highlights the evolution from learning supply chain on the job to pursuing advanced degrees in one of the nation's top programs.
• Reggie served five years as a Navy Corpsman with the Marine Corps before working in hospital settings
• His experience in cardiovascular ICU during COVID-19 demonstrated the critical importance of proper supply chain management
• Unlike previous generations who learned on the job, Reggie is gaining formal education in supply chain principles, simulations, and strategic planning
• The podcast discusses how healthcare supply chain has traditionally been reactive rather than proactive
• Students at Haslam College of Business conduct comprehensive analyses similar to what healthcare organizations should be doing
• Balancing cost efficiency with quality remains a key challenge in healthcare supply chain
• Mentorship plays a crucial role in developing the next generation of supply chain leaders
• Healthcare organizations benefit from professionals who understand both clinical needs and supply chain principles
If you have a topic you would like to discuss or want to be a guest on the show, you can reach out to Fred directly at fcrans@stonge.com.
This is Megan with St Onge Company here to introduce another episode of Taking the Supply Chain Pulse. This week, fred is chatting directly with the future of healthcare supply chain with our guest Reggie Gardner. He's a graduate student at the Helston College of Business at the University of Tennessee in Knoxville and will wrap up his master's program in December. His unique background in healthcare and supply chain is what landed him a spot on the podcast. And here's your host, fred Kranz.
Speaker 2:Today we have a unique guest. We're looking at who is going to be stocking the healthcare supply chain of the future, compared to who stocked it in the past those of us that learned on the job. Reggie is going to be wrapping up his on the job. Reggie is going to be wrapping up his master's program next December, I believe and he's got a unique background of having worked in health care before he got into supply chain. And I had met Reggie when I was down with my colleague, amy Watson, talking to folks at University of Tennessee, knoxville. And Reggie, we're happy to have you here.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having me on, friend, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2:My first question has nothing to do with what we're talking about. How do you guys feel about your quarterback leaving for a better deal at UCLA?
Speaker 3:It was definitely a shock. It was definitely a shock. You know there's some things going on behind closed doors that you know you don't really hear about in the media but wish he would have stayed. But you know you got to give your all for Tennessee.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for you folks that don't know football uh, college players can now take money and they're not getting.
Speaker 2:They're not getting small money, they're getting big money and uh, the guy that played quarterback for tennessee very good player um had signed for about two and a half million bucks. And then the guy who played at georgia decided he wanted to go to the university of miama for four million dollars, which angered the guy who played at Georgia, decided he wanted to go to the University of Miami for $4 million, which angered the guy at Tennessee who told him I'm going to enter the portal. And now he's at UCLA making $4 million. So I would urge all of you out there, rather than considering a career in health care supply chain, learn how to throw a football OK, and you just have to go to college. You don't need to work after college. You don't make enough money anyway. Uh, well, reggie, glad to have you here. What I wanted to do was why don't you start out by telling us a little bit about yourself? Tell us about your background?
Speaker 3:absolutely so. Originally I was a corpsman in the navy for about five years, so that's where I got my first taste for the medical field. Worked in the Naval Hospital for a while and then went off to 1st Marine Division to go serve with the Marine Corps. So kind of worked as a practitioner and ended up becoming a nursing tech nursing technician over in the cardiovascular ICU. So really got to see even more of the inner workings as far as the hospital setting kind of what supply chain looked like for the hospital. But then also got to see it in practice being on the practitioner side. Because of that I realized I kind of got burnt out from medical, wanted to kind of make a transition. So I decided to come and get my MBA over at Haddon College of Business and then with my concentration in supply chain, so I can kind of just tile that experience in together and see what I could do, whether it be in healthcare or another field, but healthcare has a really, really special place in my heart.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, it's interesting. There's a lot of content in there. The one thing that, before we get into our similarities and background because I thought it was really amazing you were a Navy Corpsman, I was a Navy Corpsman, you were with the Marines, I was with the Marines. Your first assignment when you worked in a Naval hospital was labor and delivery. My first assignment was labor and delivery, and we both worked in hospitals after we got out of the military as nursing assistants. So we have a lot of commonalities there that I think are important. But you got your undergraduate degree in wildlife and fishery science right. I sure did, yes. So what made you decide to pursue a master's degree in supply chain?
Speaker 3:So even with my undergrad degree in wildlife and fishery science, kind of with today's climate, it looks like I made the right choice.
Speaker 3:As far as the pivot, I just didn't see myself wanting to travel all across the country, as far as you know, in search of a job, because in that field it's very difficult to break in and it's also difficult to find those full time roles. And with my background in health care and kind of getting to see supply chain, I knew Haslam College of Business had one of the best supply chain programs there was and so I realized I could kind of merge the best of my two worlds, as far as with the military background, with the health care background after the military, to bring to the table, as far as what I had to offer personally, because I can bring in a different perspective as far as with the health care background, with the military background and with even the practitioner side of medicine and bring that into supply chain. And everything is always changing within the supply chain and that's what really interests me and you get to solve some really big, complex problems as well, big complex problems as well.
Speaker 2:When you first, you know, committed to supply chain, how much did you think you knew about supply chain?
Speaker 3:I was being honest, I didn't know as much. I thought I knew like a little bit. But once you really get into the curriculum here at Haslam you really get to do a deep dive and really get to get a lot of hands on experience with real world examples. We have some of the best professors and faculty in the country honestly so in a lot of who really bring a lot from industry. So me coming in I thought I knew a little, but once we really got into the curriculum I realized I didn't know much at all and really got to you know, kind of spread my wings when it came to the curriculum here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, I found out when years after I had long been gone from the military that I succeeded, or we succeeded, because of a major component of the supply chain, which is transportation and logistics, and when I was in Vietnam we had a phenomenal 98.3 survival rate for people who got wounded I'm not counting the ones that got killed outright, but the ones that got wounded and that was largely because the military just had a supply chain and a logistical plan that merged with its health care plan to make sure that people got the correct initial treatment and immediately got sent to the next right place, got the treatment there, immediately got sent to the next right place, and so you could have gotten shot in the field in Vietnam yesterday and by tomorrow you might be at Bethesda Naval Hospital in Maryland. And that's all logistics, and I never put that together until you know way later. But you were a part of that. You served as a grunt corpsman with First Mars Div right.
Speaker 3:I sure did yep First Mars Div.
Speaker 2:Tell people out there what the life of a corpsman is like. Just briefly.
Speaker 3:You get a lot of hands-on training is one of the best ways to put it. You really get entrusted with your Marines Because you one want to become a green side corpsman. You have to be able to pass their standards to be able to join or, you know, operate with them anyway, and there's a lot of trust that comes with that. You're attached to a unit, you're going to be basically one of their sole medical providers, and so that's a lot of trust to have on yourself, especially at a young age when you join. But you take so much pride with that. You know the hospital corpsman rates one of the most decorated rates in the Navy and I take great, great pride in that.
Speaker 3:Things of things that I was able to do, things I was able to learn my father was also a corpsman. In the 80s he went to Beirut and Grenada, so he was another big inspiration for me Want to become a corpsman and as my five years as a corpsman I wouldn't change any of it. You know there were some things that I wish I had the opportunity to do, but but for me I think that everything happens for a reason. I think it was one of the reasons that helped me get into this program. I think it was one of the reasons to help me get into this program and I think it's one of the reasons that I at least I see that I do so well within the program because I can draw back on those experiences. But yeah, being a corpsman is a unique experience, as I'm sure you know, but with it comes a lot of pride, a lot of pride.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say a couple of things. Number one we were thrown in way over our head without knowing it when we were in the field. I was with 3rd Marine Division 3-3, that's another infantry battalion. You're out there doing things that by all rights you shouldn't be doing. You learn how to do it, you do it well and you take that experience with you as you go throughout life, and I think that for me, it gave me a lot of confidence that I would not have otherwise gotten. You know, and for all the jokes aside, if I had to pick, if I knew that they were coming over to Hill this afternoon and I had to pick one branch of the military to be with, it would be with an infantry battalion in the united states marine corps, I tell you, because those guys ain't too bright, but they know what they're doing. So, anyway, you came back, you started working at a hospital and uh and um, and tell us about what happened in covid. You, you got burned out in COVID, didn't you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I initially started in UT Medical Center initially. I believe I started there in 2021. So I was on kind of the back end as far as COVID, but we still had a lot of the remnants there and you know the gowning up and and you know having to take our own precautions. But especially when I worked I worked on Seven West so we worked kind of a um, every type of patient, but then I also transferred to the cardiovascular ICU where you get to see the sick of the sick, um, and you really get to see how important those quick minute decisions are in being able to be very decisive in those decisions, even as a nursing tech.
Speaker 3:I mean you have to be able to to monitor signs of a patient change and be able to communicate that back to, whether it be the charge nurse, whether it be the, the nursing care of the patient, being able to communicate to the parent, to the family members, being able to to visualize those signs and communicate that effectively.
Speaker 3:But also being able to perform when you know something does go awry, being able to go know exactly where the equipment is that you need to go grab that, or if you have to go rub down to the blood bank, or if you have to be the one that starts chest compressions, you have to be able to really think on your toes.
Speaker 3:One that starts chest compressions, you have to be able to really think on your toes. And that's what I really enjoyed about medicine being able to see immediate impact. As far as being able to see a difference in a family member's life or in the patient's life, and just whether it be you're with them for a couple of days or whether you're there with them for a week. You know it really makes a difference there. But COVID was very unique as far as things you had to learn on the go, things you had to learn on the fly, and being able to adapt in that type of working environment where you know there's sickness all around you but you also have a job to do at the same time as well.
Speaker 2:And how important was it to have the right supplies in the right place at the right time.
Speaker 3:Oh, crucial, absolutely crucial, especially when you have, like a code blue scenario going on. You need to make sure those supplies are exactly where they're supposed to be, and you also need to make sure that you have enough of those supplies because, as you know, in any type of medical situation, something can go awry or you may need more of something that you thought you maybe didn't have. So you have to run over to the supply room or run to wherever that piece of equipment is, grab as much as you need, and you need to make sure you have an adequate amount of stock there, because you know if you're trying to put IVs in, if you're out of IVs, that's an absolute no-no, you know. And so those crucial life-saving tools, life-saving pieces of equipment are so important.
Speaker 2:So okay. So now we're going to diverge a little from you and I.
Speaker 2:You finished school and you know you're out there deciding that wildlife and fishery may not be a career and you decide you want to formally study supply chain. I continued, still working in hospitals, entering the supply chain by being a unit manager at a hospital in Miami and never got out. But I never had any formal education in supply chain ever. When you decided you wanted to go into supply chain, you entered a formal program at one of the better schools in the country one of the best. Tell us what the curriculum is like in the curriculum that you have studied and what you learned that I didn't learn. Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 3:So kind of back to the point as far as the it really starts at the, the amount, the faculty and the staff that we have here.
Speaker 3:I mean they really put us in a position to really succeed. As far as the curriculum, a lot of these professors that we have have been in industry for a multitude of years have have really gotten to see what they're teaching us in class Like, for example, they run us through whole simulations, which I personally love. I mean we get to use like a marketplace simulation where we get to really start at a high level as far as you're the manufacturer and you get to set your prices, you get to set who you're going to do business with, what your contracts look like, and then we also get to tie in um like linear models when it comes to supply chain, getting to to really dive into like the business analytics side of supply chain. I mean there's so much that we get to do.
Speaker 3:We also get to um, go to our supply chain forum where we get to connect with multiple different companies, different, different you know high level individuals as far as getting to talk about our experiences and, to the same point, what we're learning here at Haslam College of Business and these companies and these incoming students who want to come here, because Haslam is just known all over the world for their supply chain program. I mean the Haslam College of Business carries weight, whether you're in the US, whether you're abroad, you know, they always know that power T and being able to say that I've gotten an education from the University of Tennessee will forever mean something to me and I know that wherever I go, whatever path I go on, I'm going to be successful because of the curriculum that I've had here, the hands-on experience I've got to have here and the connections that I've formed with my professors and those outside of the university as well.
Speaker 1:We interrupt this podcast for a quick pulse check. Is your supply chain ready for the future? At St Onge Company, we don't just optimize logistics. We engineer smarter, meaner and more resilient systems from end to end. Visit and discover how we're shaping the future of supply chain, one solution at a time. From manufacturing to retail to healthcare, our experts bring decades of experience in cutting-edge strategies to transform your operations.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, when I was down there and you guys were involved in a project which you have since completed, and you were doing an analysis of a large foreign automotive manufacturer, and I was impressed because your group you had four, I think, different presenting groups that each took an aspect of the project it had really done a deep dive in the operations of the company, done its SWOT analysis strength, weaknesses, opportunities and threats something that I find to be foreign to health care, because the health care supply chain in my 60 years in health care has always been transactional and reactive. It's never been proactive in its planning. And when I remember talking to you about this and saying, ah, the study that you were doing and I want you to talk about it was something that the company should be doing itself if it hasn't already done it if it hasn't already done it, and I have always been struck by the fact that I've always thought that health care has been caught off guard by so many things instead of being prepared.
Speaker 2:So tell us about the nature of that study, without naming the company. Tell us about what you looked at, what you did, and it's something that we could probably transition to what a health care organization should be doing to come up with its strategic operational plan.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so keeping the company out of it. The one thing that we wanted to look back we did a 10 year look back, initially, as far as what their finances look like, what their moves in the past have been, their strategic moves, as far as what type of markets they were trying to enter in, what they are known for, who their true customer base was. And one of the main things that we talked about was innovation right, being a first mover and so also being very proactive. You know a lot of big organizations, as far as the one that we looked at also made a wrong assumption about the market, right, so they they take they take an assumption over the market. They think, ok, this is what the trends are, right, is this a trend or is this something that's going to be sustainable? They saw the market as OK, this is something we need to jump on because we see a growth in sales, but there was nothing to back it up by data. So, and through our professor, that's the one thing we've always been taught and we'll talk about him here, I'm sure, a little bit later is back it up by data, and you have to make sure that, whatever, whatever you're trying to do as far as being proactive, you're on the right path, but also make sure that you're also aligned as far as your core values, because once you get away from those core values, you kind of lose the purpose, right, you lose the reason of why you're doing this in the first place. And it's important to always keep that at the core, because, no matter what type of implementation you're doing, you could say you can make a recommendation to try to be proactive, but if it's away from what your mission is or what the core of an organization is, you're going to be lost. You're going to, as I like to say, you're going to be lost in the sauce anyway. And but that's kind of one of the main things we learned in being proactive.
Speaker 3:As far as the health care space, you really have to know what the organization needs, right, what those needs are, who needs it first, what the priorities are, how you can get it, but also how you can get it at the cheapest rate but still have the highest quality. It's a balancing act right. Especially with health care, which I'm sure you know, you can always get the cheapest product, but is it also going to be a quality product? Because at the end of the day, you want to make sure that you provide the best quality care possible and, yes, you could source it and get the cheapest material, but at the end of the you know cost, budget, cost friendly supplies, materials, you know care. And that's going back to the core you know being make sure you're aligned. Make sure those companies that you're sourcing for also align with your same goals, because that's also important as well when you look at where you're getting your materials from.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what's interesting is, when you're doing this analysis is this this is something. Tell me if I'm wrong, because you know more than I do. You're studying this. Do the larger corporations employ specific divisions to be doing that kind of work on a regular, proactive basis all the time?
Speaker 3:As far as what we've seen, not necessarily all the time, I think some of it gets lost because they, a lot of organizations, prioritize differently, Right, so there could may prioritize marketing and have a whole division for it and in their budget may factor that they may have a larger marketing budget where some organizations they may just put it on the back end, you know, and not necessarily focus on that. And I think that's kind of the same release from what I've seen as far as the research that we've done, the analysis that we've done. It's kind of the same principle. It's all about prioritizing within the organization and also from the top down what they also prioritize, because they could see it completely different from what our perspective is.
Speaker 2:Yep, I mean, it gets into proactive versus reactive and I've told people forever people hire consultants for two reasons either because something has gone terribly wrong and they need to have something done immediately to survive, or if they are on the ball, they hire consultants from time to time to help them plan so that things don't go wrong. From time to time, to help them plan so that things don't go wrong. And if you were to ask me what's the percent, I would say it's about 85% Things have gone wrong, we need help now, and 15% we want to make sure things don't go wrong. So that's why I really I'm sort of surprised, but I guess I'm not surprised. It's hard to think that a company as large as the one you were talking about and it's a very large, well-known company could allow itself to sort of get mired in the stuff that it's had to deal with and that's really interesting. So now that you're winding down and you're going to be doing your summer internship in Austin Texas, yeah, greater Austin area, round Rock, texas, pretty excited about that.
Speaker 2:And that's the live music capital of the world. You want to go there to play golf? Yeah, that's the live music capital of the world, and you want to go there to play golf? Yeah. Are you going to do any educational activities or employment activities while you're there, or is it just a vacation for the students?
Speaker 3:No, it's definitely working. Definitely working for solve and getting to work with individuals who've been at the organization for five, 10, 15 years and really enjoy it. But also they want to see the younger generation coming in and soaking up as much information as possible and embedding themselves within the culture as well.
Speaker 2:But I think you're going about it with the right attitude, reggie. I mean, I think the biggest mistake a lot of folks make is, you know, they think they know something about something and therefore they don't learn anything. I've always liked it when I've found something that I know absolutely nothing about, because then I really want to get in there and I think that's important. I've always liked it when I've found something that I know absolutely nothing about, because then I really want to get in there and I think that's important. And along those lines, I've introduced you to Albert Nakansa, who works with us. Our project manager is a really excellent project manager to give you some sort of continued connectivity about the supply chain field and kinds of stuff he's doing.
Speaker 2:I think the challenge that we have in health care is interesting folks like you into joining us in health care, and what excited me about you was you've had significant experience from the caregiving end at least six years and so you know the work, and my personal experience has been that folks that have come to a health care supply chain come here because they want to make things better for people. They want to serve people, uh, in a human way, uh, and it's not necessarily about their bank account. Uh, what do you see yourself doing uh after you, uh after you finish your uh program?
Speaker 3:yeah, um, obviously, going on the, the full job search but and still trying to keep my options open, is fine kind of where I want to locate and what type of industry I want to go in. But to say to say on, I mean I, healthcare has a special place in my heart. I mean I've got, as you know, we've talked previously I've gotten to see people at the highest of the highs and the lowest of the lows and being able to see people in that vulnerable state, but also having to also having the ability to kind of form that connection as far as working on the practitioner side, I mean that is something that I will always take with me. I always love making a difference within health care and whether I'm, you know, practicing hands-on, you know, as far as the medicine side or on the supply chain side, I think I can do some real good there as well.
Speaker 2:That's good, you know. One final sort of question. We all have people who make a difference in our lives and for most of us there's a teacher involved there somewhere. Okay, For me, the teacher at the university level that made the most difference in my life was a man named Whittington B Johnson Jr. He taught history at the University of Miami. He was the first African-American person they hired as a formal history professor. He got his PhD from Georgia and he was my mentor. I kept in touch with him right up until just before he died last year. He died at 93. In my opinion, you have the best of the best that you've been in contact with uh. Tell us about dr bradley, what he's like as a teacher and uh and what he's like what your relationship with him is like. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:Yeah, dr bradley amazing. I mean being able to join his class and which you know, really teaches us how to break down a case, how to really do those deep, deep analyses, but also being able from he is a master communicator, he's able to storytell, is, I mean, it's like pure poetry. I mean he keeps you locked in, he keeps you engaged, but he keeps it so easy for you to follow his message and he tries to instill that type of same ability in all of us within the course. I mean he by no means has to dedicate the amount of time that he does when he has to balance all the other commitments that he has. And day in, day out, he's willing to help us. He's always a phone call or a text away, a video chat away, it doesn't matter what time of the day, and he's really left a lasting impact on me, whether it be professionally, whether it be personally. I mean I've been able to come and confide in him anything that I need to. He's always a resource. But he's taught me so much that I am now able to take and just improve on you know, we've talked about it previously the start of his class.
Speaker 3:When it came to presentations, I was stuttering a little, nervous, you know you could see that it was something I was uncomfortable with. Nervous, you know you could see that it was something I was uncomfortable with, but to now I was able to compete in a external case competition where I was able to go on stage present, you know, not be nervous, to really feel confident in my abilities and that's all a testament to him, you know, to help me feel comfortable, to teach me those skills. But also I'm able to take those same skills that he's taught me now, apply those in the internship that I'm going to be doing and then later on down the road and just keep applying those same frameworks that he's taught. And I know that I can always lean on him as a resource. But he has been invaluable to me and the rest of our cohort and those before me as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, one advantage you have today, over when I graduated from the university, is you have the technical capability to remain in touch with him forever, which is a good thing, and in my opinion, there's no more noble profession in this country than being a teacher. And if things were in their right order here, teachers would make a hell of a lot more money than basketball players. Okay, we just don't have those kind of priorities order here. Teachers would make a hell of a lot more money than basketball players. Okay, absolutely, we just don't have those kind of priorities. Well, reg, thanks so much for joining us. Brother, I'm always great to talk to you, dude, and you made it through your presentation. You came out on the other side and you're cruising now for your summer uh, uh, your summer job in in in Houston and, uh, austin. That's great.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. It's always a pleasure to see you as well.
Speaker 2:Yep, let's keep in touch, buddy.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Okay, thanks, reggie, take care.
Speaker 3:You too.
Speaker 1:Well, that's all for today. Thanks again for joining and, as always, don't forget to subscribe and connect with us online, where you can find all of our episodes. If you have a topic you would like to discuss or want to be a guest on the show, you can reach out to Fred directly at F-C-R-A-N-S at S-T-O-N-G-E dot com. See you next time.
